Talk:Bai Ze
Please record the HP Result and the BR you are below: ''' '''XBOX * 127,372 HP at BR 15 on XBOX - Merthos 20:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC) * 137,882 HP at BR 15 on XBOX - Merthos 21:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC) * 128,029 HP at BR 20 on XBOX - Merthos 19:01, 30 April 2009 (UTC) * 134,154HP at BR 31, last hit was 7822 - DarqStalker 19:50, 25 March 2009 (MST) * 140,774 HP at BR 44 on XBOX - Merthos 09:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC) * 144,545 HP at BR 71, but last hit was 17,130 - Merthos 18:52, 16 February 2009 (UTC) * 365,433HP at BR 76, last hit was 49975 - lgforsberg 13:20, 08 April 2009 (MST) PC * 222,275HP - 226,275HP at BR 30 PC - Bilqis 14:05, April 17, 2010 (UTC) * 300,750HP at BR 40, Last hit was 20430 PC Sarmu 16:51, 18 April 2009 (UTC) * 502,200HP at BR 58, Last hit was 7782 (PC version) - rrphilllip 16:40, 11 April 2009 (CET) *Approximately 540K at BR71. I failed to properly count a brief period when I was about to lose, but I wasn't putting out but around 5K at the time. PC version. 22:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC) * 532,796 - 570,386 HP at BR 75 on PC Wredniak 09:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC) * 572,896HP at BR 77, last hit was 54,175 PC. Hardest fight yet. Drn 00:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC) * 535,000 - 545,000 HP (PC) at BR 107 Jake Farrell 23:05, 28 August 2009 (UTC) Hard * 410,000 HP at BR 52 Darrmok 12:30, October 13, 2009 (UTC) * 348,186 HP at BR 44 Romangelo 14:24, May 24, 2010 (UTC) * 155 509HP @ BR12. Zephyr135 03:40, June 29, 2010 (UTC) * 143 777/149 528/155 509 @ BR5, * 168 199 @ BR25, * 212 825 @ BR30, * 244 211 @ BR35, * 309 359 @ BR40, * 338 045 @ BR45, * 380 472 @ BR50, * 481 971 @ BR55, * 501 443 @ BR60, * 542 778 @ BR65+ Zephyr 04:04, February 25, 2011 (UTC) ---- This guy is officially a joke, and a bad one at that. At BR58 with 3 unions (4k hp each), he pretty much oneshots the one with more casters (and less physical def) with his normal attack. I'm really stumped as to how anyone's ever managed to kill him =/ same way you kill any dragon. Physical attacks, preferably mixed with a group using Paralyze or Support Mystics/healing. Make sure every union has Vivification for particularly devastating hits of Darkbreath/Vulcanbreath. If you see Protection come up in your battle commands... use it. Dragons do not have anything but Unit attacks (except for aforementioned round enders) so entire squads -1 can stay invulnerable. The first time I killed Bai Ze I used ~30 Vivification Herbs, and he was the very first rare Dragon I took down. For a healing group, make sure they have abilities like Decoy/Protection/Revitalize/Double Time/Vivification. That way, when you revive a unit, your other units will automatically Protect and Heal them. And when you are healing other Unions, somebody with Protect will throw that on them as well. Pagus gets Wards, so try to get Protect for him and stick him in a healing union. Now on Hard mode, on the other hand... I don't know. I tried him when I ran into him at BR 50'ish, but there was no way I was beating him. That was only with 12 Units to three unions, though. PHJF 04:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC) :A-team B-team set. Keep re-starting until it lets your B-team heal and A-team deadlock. A team should be 5x bruisers (highest HP you can find), B team is healer squad. If you can, remove everything but psionics and combat, as paralyze and silence don't prevent Vulcanbreath Darkbreath (which is incredibly lame), but Desperate Wail does (hence, morale boost ever 2 turns and he'll never Vulcanbreath your B team). I should also note that Bai Ze in particular has EPIC huge regular attack and pretty mediocre Vulcanbreath, which makes things a whole lot easier on you compared to other dragons. 19:09, 20 April 2009 (UTC) ::EDIT NOTE: I realized I was talking about the wrong skill here. Vulcanbreath is prevented by Paralyze, but Darkbreath is not prevented by any status ailment that I can find. It also is used at max morale and up to at least 3 turns consecutively, making it a pain to deal with. 22:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC) :::Nope, no chance. His darkbreath one-shots my 6000hp BR58 melee unit, it's just hopeless. Thanks for the help anyways, I may use your advice later. Lancelot1 00:17, 21 April 2009 (UTC) ::Just do as you do against all area attacks - reduce the number of units per union. With just 2 or 3 you are hit for less damage. If you have imunitiy to Instakill (i.e. Rush as a Warlock) than even a single unit. Deadlock him with such a union and keep the rest away, either for healing standby or ranged attacks. Avoiding Multi-Deadlocks where possible also reduces his damage output per round. Although it will take longer to kill him you have a much higher chance to survive. - Merthos 06:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC) :::Hm, I hadn't thought of that. Might be worth exploring. I'll let you know how miserably I failed. Lancelot1 06:57, 21 April 2009 (UTC) ::::With Bai Ze, that's not a problem as he doesn't AoE in regular rounds. Against bosses who use AREA attacks (not UNION attacks), you should never, ever, ever pile up a bunch of unions. It just gives him extra rounds to hit everyone and leads to quick elimination. 18:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC) :::::I am currently at BR34 (PC Hard Mode) and been farming Bai Ze via the Kosmosfest maiden quest. I beat him like 12 times; he beat my squead 3 or 4 times at most. This is how I do it. I put Emmy and two melee-oriented characters (in this case, Warrior Jorgen and Roberto) in a union, Unicorn formation. I have another melee-centric squad with meat shields (Jorgen, baulson, Obsidian Gaou), one balanced union (David, Thorgal, Caedmon), and two morale-controlling squads via hexes, psionics, or both; one has Rush, Gabriel, Nora, Loki and Blocter; the other uses Pagus, Zolean, Maddox and Violet (I'm not using Irina at all). I always command Emmy's squad to defend, send hexers to lower morale or paralyze, and the other two unions to use weapon arts. All five unions tackle Bai Ze in the first round. The idea is managing to get one unit to flank Bai Ze. Then, just keep one union deadlocked with him (mainly Emmy's squad with "Be our shield" command, and/or some squad under a protective ward) and, if neccessary, tell the other non-flanking unions to heal themselves. The flanking squad (ideally that of Pagus and Zolean) will usually cast one morale-lowering art and a couple of healing arts. Once Bai Ze morale is low enough (about 4/5 of the morale bar), which can happen the 2nd or 3rd turn, he won't do AoE attacks anymore. Some tips to get this strategy working are having a wards savvy character with Protection (Rush's talisman also does wonders in this department). Whenever you get the chance to use Protection or Rush' Talisman, use it to deadlock Bai Ze, giving a break to any other deadlocked unions that are in trouble. Since protection or the talisman block the first physical attack, and Bai Ze usually hits single units via Predation or Death Fang or whatever, a unit with Protection will survive Bai Ze's regular attack and, if push comes to shove, the subsequent EoT AoE attack. Getting advantage of paralyzing arts is also a good idea, whenever possible. Don't revive the blond girl - she will most likely get killed in one blow from Bai Ze, and will give away a lot of morale. Once Bai Ze's morale is at a minimum and your unions are at full health you can launch a full-scale assault on him again and get a second unit to flank Bai Ze. From there onwards it's a walk in the park. Fedejico 13:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC) Breath patterns Most recent edit noted what I had previously said about the breath. It should be noted that there are two breath attacks on PC (don't know about 360). Vulcanbreath is the normal one and generally plays second fiddle to Desperate Wail. One of the two is used every other turn. Darkbreath is used at random as far as I can tell and doesn't follow the every-other-turn pattern (can be used at least 3 turns in a row and can be used with full player morale). It deals about the same amount of damage and doesn't seem to be preventable (i.e. can be done through silence or paralyze), though the attack itself is physical (i.e. damage is nullified by Protection). I could dump all of the info onto the page, but I'm curious if anyone has found a way to prevent Darkbreath or has found a pattern to Darkbreath use? 04:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC) :I've killed Bai Ze a few times and have noticed whenever I had gotten Bai Ze near or at critical hp status in a few of the fights, at the end of the round he will sometimes immediately attack with a Darkbreath, regardless of morale at a random group on PC, not bothering to use Desperate Wail, or Vulcanbreath. Taerprae 22:25, 10 May 2009 (UTC) :: For what I've seen in my third playthrough (2nd in hard mode, BR 32), Bai Ze uses Darkbreath after 8-10 rounds or so, usually on odd rounds (7,9,11,etc.). On even turns (10,12,14) he still resorts to either Desperate Wail or Vulcanbreath. :: Bai Ze isn't that hard, anyway; I have to set all unions to mystic seal or otherwise it goes down in 2-4 turns and I get very little gains from battling it. Fedejico 21:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC). :: Bai Ze uses Darkbreath randomly as far as I can tell, but seems to only do so on odd rounds. He can do it before he is flashing red health-wise. Its frequency may or may not be affected by low morale, but he can still do it on low morale. Titanium Dragon 18:54, January 26, 2010 (UTC) I confirm what have been said earlier: after a few fights (PC), it seems that bai ze almost never uses DarkBreath if you can keep his moral low enough. However, 5 unions as fredejico suggests is, in my opinion, not a good idea, as it leaves you with very weak units, unless you've been stat grinding like crazy. You can go with 4 unions and still keep his moral very low by using a union more or less dedicated to moral control (2 of my psionics leaders are in such a union and are forbidden to use almost every art except healing arts and moral debuff). That plus one union flanking should allow you to have full moral almost all the time, thus preventing him from using DarkBreath (most of the time, he still uses it very rarely). Checkitout, unregistered contributor. LOL Bai ze is probably one the hardest bosses in the game if you dont know what your doing and dont have atleast 4-5 unions his normal attacks will instant KO anyone hes not hard to kill but unless you have many unions youll be healing the whole time and wont be able to attack. his normal attacks so strong lulz when i put inf hp on he still insta killed my guys and his darkbreath instant killed my entire union with 9999 hp and ( supposedly ) inf hp I laughed so hard i just wanted to see if i was having bad luck or he just instant KOS on normal attacks and I guess it wasnt my luck hes just a OP dragon Lulz. The mechanics of defend, wards, morale and flanking against Bai Ze I think I didn't elaborate enough my explanation on how to beat Bai Ze, so here it goes a more in-depth explanation. A protective ward (orphic ward, protection, or Rush's Talisman unique ward) will prevent the first attack to harm a character. Orphic wards block mystic attacks, Protection blocks physical attacks, and Talisman blocks both of them. Those arts put one ward into each character in the same union, and they are treated separatedly. That is, if one character gets hit it's just his/her ward that goes down; the other characters in the same union are still protected. Defend lowers damage taken by a huge amount (about 1/3 of regular damage, in my experience), plus grants defending characters 1/2 of their regular end of turn (EoT) AP gain. Since Bai Ze usually targets a single character with his Death Fang / Predation art (though he may hit several characters with its tail sweep), a physically protected union will endure his art and only the attacked character will suffer an almost neglictible HP loss in case Bai Ze uses his EoT AoE attack. A union that flanked one enemy union the last turn (at least a union that's lead by Emmy, Pagus, Rush, David or Jager, my five union leaders at the moment) will get a "Attack them from the flanks" command that will keep that union flanking their currently targeted foe, as far as that target is deadlocked to at least one other union. Since flanking unions can use healing arts (they behave in some kind of "play it by ear" fashion), they will heal other unions, including the deadlocked ones, which are taking either lowered damage (defending Emmy) or almost no damage at all (warded Rush). Flanking does lower the target's morale as well; that's why it's easy to take on Bai Ze simply by flanking it with one union that's got at least one healer and using a very defensive union as a deadlocker, that will get healed each turn by the flankers. This union can be Emmy's squad (in my experience melee-oriented formations led by Emmy get the "Be our shield" command almost every round), or any squad protected with a ward. Chances are they won't fall and will get healed by the flanking union, even in Hard mode and with a BR as low as 33. The flanking union serves a threefold purpose, then: damages Bai Ze, ensures the survival of the deadlocked unions, and lowers Bai Ze's morale, effectively preventing it from using its AoE attack. Just make sure there is at least one other union deadlocking Bai Ze each turn. --Fedejico 13:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC) :Hmm, interesting thought (obviously only works on hard mode since only Pagus will have wards by that time on normal mode -- no Wyngale, Rush doesn't have it yet, can't get Aristo-Jorgen until Undelwalt), but how do you deal with the inevitable darkbreath? How much HP do your unions have, anyway? Also, I found it much easier to ignore the fight Bai Ze outside of the Kosmofest quest because that airhead would always get killed and then prevent me from healing my unions properly by forcing me to "Bring them back!". Hate that woman. 17:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC) :: you can prevent bai ze from using darkbreath at all, though it won't work everytime. The trick to shutting down darkbreath is lowering Bai Ze's morale. You can do it in many ways, but the rock-solid one is keeping one (or two) units flanking it each turn, while not reviving the blonde girl so that bai ze doesn't get extra morale because of swatting her. Try to keep either a defending unit on the front line, or a warded unit (talisman will do), or a hex-based squad so that bai ze gets paralized often. To lower Bai Ze's morale blazing fast you've got to use a couple of "lower their morale" commands (bluff is ok) and get one unit to flank it. If you manage to get two flanking units and a "lower their morale" command, or just one flanking union but many morale-lowering arts in the first two turns, chances are Bai Ze won't use darkbreath through the entire fight - he will use Desperate Wail instead, which you will make up for in the next flanking attack. :: Rush has got his Talisman, though it's unlikely he gets the chance to use it before the end of turn 2 (first darkbreath on hard mode). My unions have something between 2.000 hp (Emmy, Roberto, warrior jorgen) and 3.200 (Jager, Baulson, Gaou). However, 2.000 hp on a "Be our shield!" union can be enough to survive a hard mode BR 34 darkbreath provided they blocked Bai Ze's regular attack, or if they got hit, a flanking union healed them (which is more often than not the case). Fedejico 21:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC) :::Bai Ze uses Darkbreath randomly. Vulcanbreath almost always take a back seat to Desperate Wail, but when Darkbreath comes up, it is used at any morale level and at any time -- not in the every-other-turn cycle like Desperate Wail / Vulcanbreath. That's what he does to me, anyway. I haven't gotten around to facing him on hard; my hard save is taking a back seat while I go completionist on normal mode. 02:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC) ::::Bai Ze did use darkbreath as an EoT bonus action while his morale bar was at the absolute mininum. However, that happened just once in 50 battles (BR 49), and the so-useful blond girl had just silenced the dragon from afar. I guess you can prevent Bai Ze from using EoT bonus attacks by using cachexia, or both silencing and paralyzing it (I can tell Bai Ze doesn't always do an EoT action each other turn; sometimes he skips his bonus move and it may be because he got both paralyzed and silenced). Fedejico 13:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC) I went back at BR84 on Hard and he was a walk in the park. He got off two Darkbreaths, neither of which downed any of my three unions (but they came close). Vulcanbreath practically did nothing. And protection does not prevent Instant KO effect, but it seems that Predation or Deadly Fang or whatever doesn't succeed very often anyways. Eldritch Dragon, on the other hand, is crazy hard on Hard (duh) as he uses breath attacks during regular turns. PHJF 04:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC) :Wards do not prevent status effects; they merely nullify damage. Instakill is a status effect. Ergo, protect does not prevent instakill. 04:31, 25 April 2009 (UTC) :::I've killed Bai Ze about 30 times now (probably more); I needed to build my skills and stats somehow since I reached BR 34 without using any trick, grind or anything to build my stats or skills, so Hannah and Hinnah smoked all my unions with their opening twin snowpetal (I had cleared the first 3 bases without any problems at all, however). As long as I kept the morale bar about 85% to my favor, Bai Ze never ever used any AoE attacks, not a single time. Battles usually span over 15 or 20 turns (sometimes more, but very rarely less). Instakill plays actually in your favor, since it strenghtens your units (doesn't lower your max. hp, but in the event of a AoE attack your resistance goes up). Besides, if your union is warded, your union retains their full hp while all the remaining units are still protected, so they all will be impervious to a subsequent AoE attack. Also, bear in mind you only need to keep one union deadlocking Bai Ze; as far as it is protected it won't go down no matter what. You can use the "clear their status ailments" with reserve squads to revive fallen units within deadlocked unions, in the case you wish to do so. The main source of trouble while tackling Bai Ze is reviving the blond girl. Just be careful and look the union number that's to be revived; if you bring back to action the blond girl, she will spell trouble. Fedejico 10:23, 25 April 2009 (UTC) Someone told me that your BR won't gain if you killing Bai Ze, is that true? :What I can say is that I've beaten Bai Ze like ten times in a row and my BR didn't raise. However, just today I beat it once more and my BR raised from 45 to 46. I was trying to learn cachexia to tackle the Eldritch Dragon (in hard mode it can wipe an entire army with Blackout II, which it can cast at BR 45 already). Fedejico 12:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC) BR gain is tied mostly to *number* of enemies slain. Fighting one enemy over and over isn't going to have much of an effect. PHJF 18:25, 26 April 2009 (UTC) Well at BR113 on the PC, I can simply close my eyes and hit melee attacks. I use 5 unions, so 2 of them are bound to always flank him and since both have classes that can re-enable a flanking even if the 3 multi-locked unions stop to heal, I have no problem in keeping my teams moral up without any mysticks what-so-ever. I farm Bai Ze regularly for money, since it's probably the easist rare to spawn. You can see him straight from the start when you enter Crookfen, and if he isn't there just re-enter. If he keeps one-shotting people then it's most likely all about your unions just not having the appropriate stats. 3 unions means you can't flank him. 4 unions means 1 flank. 5 unions means 2 flanks. If you can't flank, your moral will drop to zero before you know it unless you have moral affecting mysticks. --CelVantes 13:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC) Predation This art is a combat art and is subject to Paralysis. This can be useful if the fastest union can paralyze him as he won't be using it in subsequent multilocks. Kaply 17:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC) Miracle Idk it was posted before or not, but have some screens with miracle. If required I will send as a proof. Normal Dragons Moved from the page: :"Normal dragons will only spawn before this quest is completed. (PC Version: the normal Dragons are spawning at the second Disk)" Both of these were added by PC users, my assumption is that the first relates to normal dragons as in after the quest only Dread Dragons will appear, and the second relates to them as in Dragons were spotted on the map (which may or may not have been Dread Dragons). Some clarification is needed either way. Drake178 14:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC) Worth Farming? Is Bai Ze even worth farming? At BR 77, it took me about 25 minutes to kill him; if it takes another 5 minutes, say, to do the rest of it (get the quest, run through crookfen, fight Bai Ze, then leave crookfen) that means it is about 1/2 hour to kill him. While he is worth 66,760 gold, you have to subtract the value of the herbs you spend on him from how much you make. Titanium Dragon 15:54, January 26, 2010 (UTC) There's a problem in the way you're geared and the way you play, cause Bai Ze dies in less than 5 turns on my normal game at BR100, and less than 4 turns on my Hard Mode game at BR25. Strategy (moved from the page) * Get to the point where you can have at least 5 unions, and break your party up into 5 unions of 3-4 characters each. * Make the three unions which deadlock him (probably your first three unions) have the most hit points; they should have at least 2900 each (the more the better). * Your last two unions should include unions with the ability to grant the command "strike from the sides" or "strike from the rear", if possible. * Every union should, if possible, have the ability to revive, but the unions which deadlock with Bai Ze should all have it regardless. Your goal is to prevent Bai Ze from ever using his devastating Vulcanbreath power by keeping his morale as low as possible (preferably all the way to the right, so the bar is completely blue). This is possible with this setup because you flank him constantly. If a union falls, call off one of your unions which is deadlocked with him to revive the fallen union while still striking from the flanks with your flankers. If a union which is deadlocked with him will die to his attack, have them pull back to heal themselves for a round if you cannot have an allied union reliably heal them. HP Why do we have two values for HP on PC? Unless someone tells me otherwise I'm going to assume that all values of 500k+ were recorded on Hard Mode and adjust accordingly. Proposed figures : Standard mode 275k, Hard Mode 525k. Ferret37 00:51, May 5, 2010 (UTC) hm, on normal difficult with br130 he got ~550k BLiNDMaNKiND 11:19, 11 Juni 2010 (CET) HP exactly BR 27 = 189,201 --Heartfullove 06:02, March 26, 2011 (UTC) Does he spawn when The Cosmos Maiden haven't been completed? I just wonder if he does, since I tried looking for him before the quest but he did not show up. 13:39, December 21, 2010 (UTC) :Late answer, but it doesn't seem like it does. So assume no, it doesn't spawn until after completing The Cosmos Maiden. Grinding Bai Ze Bai Ze can be a very profitable grinding opportunity for both skills and stats. By dragging out the battle, both skill and stat boosts can be increased significantly. However unlike the Ultimate PC Grind which utilises Landworms, Bai Ze is both powerful and enduring, which makes it a pain in the ass to actually kill repeatedly. Bai Ze is quite capable of making mincemeat out of a weak party, which makes it suitable to early Disk 2 grinding where you have 18 decent party members and a better understanding of the battle system. Bai Ze is capable of causing around 2000 HP damage per normal hit, 2500 HP damage with Predation and a varying amount from the Breath attacks depending on how many party members are caught in the area 500 and 750HP damage per party member. [Unconfirmed high critical rate with breath attacks may cause 1000 damage per party member Suggested tactics include using 4 or 5 unions with over 3000 HP each, with at least one Vivication Herb user and several Revitalise users spread equally. This allows you to initiate back attacks consistently without relying on Sheryl. Don't try to keep Sheryl alive if utilising the Cosmos Maiden spawn trick, she isn't capable of surviving very long with 1700HP, nor causing significant damage. Ensure Herb stores are full before trying to grind this monster, since Kiss of Life is both rare and AP Intensive to cast 108-129AP. Using Psionics skills such as Bluff, Addle or Mixed Message can make the battle easier, especially if this forces Bai Ze to use Desperate Wail instead of a Breath Attack during its bonus turn. Several Psionics users spread across the unions can make this easier, although it only takes one to utilise this strategy. Bai Ze vs Ultimate PC Grind: If you are willing to sacrifice the associated quests and items corresponding page then the Ultimate PC Grind is superior to Bai Ze. As I said before: Bai Ze is both powerful and enduring, which makes repeated grinding difficult, whereas the Ultimate Grind relies on endlessly re-spawning Landworms which have less than 500HP per unit, making a squad of 5 dead after a single combat skill, or the entire opposing army dead after a single Arcana spell. The PC Grind is better for stats and is very effective for skills, but Bai Ze may be more effective for improving skills due to the higher HP. The process of grinding Bai Ze is effective, but is also slow and quite annoying until you can survive the fight without repeatedly reviving unions. Having said that: If you can survive Bai Ze without reviving, then you probably don't need to grind at all. My suggestion would be to try both yourself. If you find Bai Ze too much of a challenge or chore, then use the Landworms instead. But mindless grinding isn't partially fun and Bai Ze is certainly capable of keeping you on your toes.